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“Free Gaza Free Palestine!
Killing innocent kids is sickening.”
Posted: November 19, 2012
Start the discussion
Ask Hamas to disappear, use their brains.
Ask Israel why they are causing carnage?
The strong will continue to do what they can get away with. Hamas acts under emotion/religious hatred, is brainless and hence suffering more. It is foolish of the weak to ***** the strong. Don't throw stones at a hornet's nest.
Either way Israel is trying to destroy them, whether there throwing stones or not.
The earth is getting overpopulated, resources depleting fast, and you will see more of the same. What are their Arab brothers doing to help?
I dont know what the Arab brothers are doing, that is not the reason i posted this. Im just trying to show my support.
Well said, Glosta123.
Glosta 123, Showing support of Hamas will not stop Israelis acting the way they do - need for internal awakening within the Palestinians and Arabs to reform their internal politics which are corrupt, sectarian, and in many ways fascist, and racist - taking sides between two rotten lots is difficult. They need to come out of their dark ages mind-sets, given a chance, as seen in all Islamic theocracies in the region, those in power act arbitrarily, I don't need to mention Syria, or Saudi Arabia, even Iran, and Pakistan and persecution/oppression minorities. Israel stand out as it is a Jewish theocracy and foothold of the West in the middle-east and harking back to a bygone colonial era which created it in the first place by displacing the original inhabitants.
Standards prevailing in the West do not apply at some of these locations and one needs to look at the situation detached from our own standards, and surroundings. A classic example now of Burma where there is much sympathy for Ang Sang Su Kyi's vision of a democratic Burma but where minorities have been put in concentration camps or eliminated. Solutions need to be developed from within affected societies and in some way fought out to the bitter end. Was that any different in Europe in the past?
Sympathy and shouting injustice, and barbarity from the sidelines will not save Gaza, Syria, or Burma.
Showing support will not stop Israelis acting the way they do but it will raise awareness.
Sounds to me like the media got you right wherr they wanted.
The people of Israel knows how it feels to have their land destroyed and their people killed due to the "holocaust" but are still causing the same affect on another group of people.
Glosta123 - This has been going on well before the setting up of Israel in 1948 when settlers were allowed in by the then British government.
This has been an ongoing international issue for decades/generations - through wars and terrorist acts from both sides of the divide. So not a new topic for raising awareness - most people around the world are sick of the situation, whilst Israel has Great Power support and continues its occupation, and expansion with impunity, the Arabs have been seen to be incompetent and as such lost sympathy. In world context, death and destruction in Palestine is small beer compared with Some of the African, and Asian killing fields, or Europe, the Soviet Union, China, North and South America in earlier decades/centuries. People and nations of the world have other preoccupations safeguarding their day to day necessities - and to be blunt - one only wakes up now and then when particular events hit the headlines and then everyone goes back to sleep soon after - there are too many tragedies around the world and profuse media coverage only blunts ones sensitivities.
Youll be suprised how many people are not aware of this situation due to alot of media broadcasters choosing not to show the situation for some reason.
Also America need to stop supplying artillery to Israel, this may not stop the violence but will have a massive impact.
Glosta123 - People don't understand such stories unless they are in some way connected/exposed previously - as said the world is full of such stories - they come and go - difficult to take sides if you don't know the context.
Write to President Obama if you fee strongly about it or emigrate to Palestine and join up Hamas, but given their calibre, doubt you will get much change from them either and start taking the Israeli side.
Many in Britain have gone to fight many causes around the world - as mercenaries in Africa or Asia, socialist Partisans in the Spanish Civil War, the underground in Greece or Yugoslavia, etc, even today's Israelis formed terrorist organisations in Palestine during the British mandate and bombed and killed British soldiers and civilians there. Yesterday's terrorists are today's freedom fighters (Nelson Mandela for example) and who knows if Hamas succeeds, they may well become respectable tomorrow. You may also wish to bring the atrocities committed in Syria, or some of the Gulf States against their minorities and immigrant workers to the attention of those interested to listen, or the goings on in Mali or Somalia - the list is endless..
Just a curious question, Who do you believe is in the WRONG Israel or Palestine? and why?
I am simply a spectator in an unequal duel. No partiality one way or the other in principle although one admires strength, intelligence, and achievement.
The Israelis have the upper hand and the Palestinians are seen as failures, deservedly so - the world does not like failures. No rights and wrongs in human history; Jews have been high achievers, intelligent, talented and have been united all through their millennia of wandering and persecution.
The Arab hordes were nomadic tribes that went on pillage and plunder around the known world of the time, and subsequently on the Islamic conquests until the rise of European powers. If Israel's legitimacy in Palestine is to be questioned, you also need to question the legitimacy of most of the countries in the Middle-East, borders of which were arbitrarily set by the colonial overlords following WW1, and ruled by hereditary dictatorships that came to be installed by conquest, or being installed by outside powers or other devices when the general population were kept in the dark by religion, or brutality.
As said, land does not belong to anyone but those that make use of it and defend it. The Israelis have worked hard (you might say using cheap Palestinian labour) and made the desert bloom, contributed much to science, agriculture, land and water management, the arts, and culture, Hollywood, international banking, and world business, you name it - talented, and high achievers despite the racial and religious persecution suffered over the centuries.
Illegal occupation, justice, equality, etc, these are theoretical concepts developed post WW2 - ideals that nobody has achieved individually or collectively, catchwords used by politicians or losers when needed to get UN help.
Jack Dairy-Dar: "Hello, and welcome to another edition of "Imperialism disguised as Postmodernism", with me, your host, Jack Dairy-Dar! And with me today, a man who positively oozes imperialism… disguised, of course, as postmodernism. Bomb King – welcome to the show, my friend!"
Bomb King: "Thanks for having me on, Jack. It's a pleasure to be here."
Jack: "So Bomb King, let's just dive straight in shall we… Do you believe the Nazis were RIGHT or WRONG to systematically exterminate the Jews?"
Bomb King: "No partiality one way or the other in principle, Jack, although of course one admires strength, intelligence, and achievement. No rights and wrongs in human history, you see…"
Jack: "Oh indeed. And the expansion of Nazi Germany across Europe? I bet you've got some real gems in connection with that…!?"
Bomb King: "Well, Jack, land doesn't belong to anyone but those that make use of it and defend it. Illegal occupation, justice, equality, etc, these are theoretical concepts developed post WW2 - ideals that nobody has achieved individually or collectively, catchwords used by politicians or losers…"
Jack: "Stop it, stop it… you're killin' us! Ladies and gents – please give it up for the one and only… BOMB KING!!!!"
[applause and whooping]
Joe_Sucksmith - Best to go to the front and join the fight rather than shouting from the sidelines. If only words will save the world from injustice, and barbarism. Good luck
Fighting doesnt solve it either, especially when you got trigger happy zionists.
Glosta123 - in a battle for survival - shoot first and ask questions after - violence begets violence and the wicked will attack regardless of your trying to be a pacifist. I mean this for both sides in the location.
shoot first and asked questions after? imagine that happening to your mum.
My mum? irrelevant to the discussion. Please see: 'Why Israel's action in Gaza is not "disproportionate" Proportionality is not the same thing as symmetry. Israel must counter the developing threat from Hamas. New Statesman
You said it Glosta123 - always examine your own first motives/biases.
Research the history of the Palestine and Israel conflict, your opinion might change. Also research Zionism and New World Order.
Why couldn't you show your support on Joe Sucksmith's thread, Glosta123? The conversation there was a tad more rational, or certainly less emotive.
Didnt see his till after i posted this
Would it have bothered you if you had? Fifty replies to that topic and none of them are yours. You *never* respond to anyone else's discussions, yet you ask for responses on a range of subjects that are often at best trivial or, like this one, redundant. If you're not interested in what other people want to talk about, why should they return the favour?
Arguments about "proportionality" miss the point completely. As an occupying power, Israel has no right of "self-defence" against the Palestinians, "proportional" or otherwise. It merely has a responsibility to end its occupation. This is the unspeakable context of the recent murderous assault on Gaza…
Not sure if Gaza is under Israeli occupation and as such Israel's responsibility to protect, etc. Land belongs to those occupying, and making use of it - even in English Law although one can question the legality of the formation of Israel in 1948 - you will have to fight another War or pursue through international courts assuming the parties would do so willingly. So this discussion is useless.
If you look up all international borders/national jurisdictions have evolved from wars, revolutions, occupations, migration, and displacement/ eradication of indigenous inhabitants who themselves have previously come to be there through similar events. The process continues today and tomorrow's borders I am sure will be different.
Hamas is boasting that it has won the recent conflict with Israel - so who are we to question they are not the winners.
" Palestinian territories of the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip are that part of Palestine not included in the territory on which the state of Israel was established in 1948. Legally the territories share a history of Ottoman law and custom, and British Mandate legislation along with shari`a and customary rules. From 1948-1967 the West Bank including East Jerusalem was ruled by Jordan while the Gaza Strip was administered by Egypt."
Gaza is technically Egypt's responsibility and the reason of her involvement in the cease-fire. Much of human and material movements to Gaza is via the Rafah/Harish road and Egyptian territory - and the border is porus.
If you dig in deep - the whole situation is now ancient history - that of breakdown of past Empires, World Wars, invasions, revolutions, religious and ethnic hatred, etc, - all part of the historic evolution of the present political entities and borders only recently defined.
On a similar vein as that of the borders and ethnic conflicts in a number of European/Asian/African countries - some much more brutal and not having attracted media attention as this one.
Those who expect to live in a perfect world will be disappointed I am sure. Regarding bias, prejudice, etc, it is natural for people to claim anyone not agreeing with your viewpoint is wrong, misinformed or criminal - Hamas' published objectives are to drive all Jews (not just Zionists and Israelis) into the sea - given that some of the sympathies expressed for the Palestinian cause (which are valid in many ways in light of Gaza being a huge refugee camp over generations) are mixed up with bigoted support for the Islamist cause - which is suspect. Islamists want a world under Shariya Law - much like the Caliphate that was the super power of the middle-ages ruling over most of the then known world - Central Asia, North Africa, much of Asia, and parts of today's Europe. Regrettably the world today does not want domination by Shariya Law or despotic religious nutters acting as their rulers.
In a real sense such propaganda allows exploitation of the innocent Palestinians of all faiths, and none for the Islamist/terrorist minority whose cause will be lost if there was a solution to the plight of the displaced people of the East Bank, and Gaza.
The solution is in the hands of those at the location and surrounding Islamic States, whether they wish to continue to live in the middle-ages or come out and throw their blinds away into daylight. Some might think the process has begun.
Gaza crisis: Palestinian 'shot
dead near border'
23 November 2012 Last updated at 13:13
A Palestinian man has been shot dead by
Israeli soldiers close to the Gaza border,
Palestinian officials say.
It is the first reported killing since the
ceasefire between Hamas and Israel came
into force on Wednesday evening.
The Israel Defense Forces (IDF) said it fired
warning shots at a group walking towards
the border fence, then fired at their legs
when they did not respond.
Earlier, Israel said it had arrested several
people over a bus bomb in Tel Aviv on
The blast, which injured 29 people, came
hours before the ceasefire began and was
the first such attack in Tel Aviv for more
than six years.
The shooting on Friday, east of Khan
Younis, reportedly happened around the
no-go area surrounding the Gaza border
A man in his 20s, named as Anwar Qdeih,
was killed and at least 10 other people
injured, said the health ministry in Gaza.
A relative of Mr Qdeih told Reuters news
agency that he had been trying to place a
Hamas flag on the fence. The army fired
into the air three times before he was shot
in the head, the relative said.
Israel said a group of about 300 people had
approached the fence and that some had
attempted to break through.
The soldiers shot at their legs after warning
shots were ignored, the IDF said.
Following the incident, IDF spokeswoman
Avital Leibovich tweeted : "Trying to breach
Gaza fence in order to enter Israel is
Hamas officials said the shooting was an
Israeli violation of the Egyptian-brokered
Hamas "will raise this violation with
Egyptian mediators to make sure that it
does not happen again", spokesman Sami
Abu Zuhri told AFP news agency.
Palestinian Foreign Minister Riad Malki also
said it was "a clear violation of the
agreement and should not be repeated".
Israel launched its offensive in Gaza - which
it says was aimed at ending rocket fire from
Palestinian militants - with the killing of a
Hamas military leader last week.
Provisional UN figures say that 158 people
were killed in the Gaza Strip during the
Four Israeli civilians and two soldiers were
killed - the second of the military casualties
died of his wounds on Thursday.
Under the truce deal , Israel has agreed to
end all hostilities and targeted killings of
militants, while all Palestinian factions will
have to stop firing rockets into Israel and
staging border attacks.
Details regarding the border region, which
is regularly patrolled by the Israeli military,
have yet to be worked out.
The Hamas Prime Minister in Gaza, Ismail
Haniya, has urged Gazans to respect the
The BBC's Jon Donnison in Gaza says
shootings near the border happen fairly
often and do not always lead to an
escalation of violence.
Israel has unilaterally declared a 300m-
wide exclusion zone around the fence which
it says is needed for security but which
Palestinians say steals valuable farming
How far this latest clash goes will depend
largely on how Hamas chooses to respond,
our correspondent adds - it is a reminder,
though, that the ceasefire is very fragile.
Earlier on Friday, Israel's security agency
Shin Bet said in a statement that the
arrests relating to the bus bomb had
happened "a few hours after the attack",
AFP news agency reported.
Israeli military spokeswoman Avital
Leibovich said the suspect was "an Arab-
Israeli from Taybe and a member of
Officials said that a number of Palestinians
affiliated with Hamas and Islamic Jihad in
the West Bank were also arrested,
suspected of having recruited the man to
carry out the bombing.
FREE GAZA FREE PALESTINE! STOP KILLING KIDS "THIS ISNT A WAR, THIS IS MURDER"
Netanyahu is a WAR CRIMINAL
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